IRC log started Tue Jan 19 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0119
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<me> hello everyone
[me(corey@yin.interaccess.com)] help
[me(corey@yin.interaccess.com)] /help
[me(corey@yin.interaccess.com)] hmm, maybe your not a bot :)
[me(corey@yin.interaccess.com)] sorry :)
<me> anyone alive?
<me> ls
08:30am
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<_QZ> greetings
03:00pm
<_QZ> Fare: what do i use in fseek to goto the end of file
<Fare> QZ: SEEK_END
<Fare> fseek(f,0,SEEK_END);
<Fare> or rather,
<Fare> err = fseek(f,0,SEEK_END);
<Fare> if (err) { panic(); }
<Fare> btw, RTFM
<_QZ> this is openprojets.net, yer not suppose to say RTFM :)
03:20pm
<Fare> this isn't #linpeople
<Fare> BTW, RTFM, anyway!
<_QZ> hehe
<_QZ> well i dont have the man pages installed and my C book is on the bookshelf and im too lazy to walk over and get it :)
<Fare> QZ: telnet bespin ... man fseek
<Fare> ... you have no excuse :)
<_QZ> my telnet binary is corrupt :)
<_QZ> haha
<Fare> :)
<_QZ> did u use that super compression on that? :)
<Fare> yep. I stored infinitely many bits in a file:
<Fare> ln -s /dev/zero telnet
03:30pm
<_QZ> this sucks. ive been away from dos for so long that i cant remember howto make a simple dos boot disk
<Fare> sys a:
<Fare> format /s
<Fare> diskcopy a: b:
<Fare> linux ; dd if=dosboot.img of=/dev/fd0
03:40pm
<_QZ> hmm i just formatted a floppy and tried to copy autoexec.bat and config.sys to it
<_QZ> but it says "0 files copies"
<_QZ> ah they are both 0byte files
03:50pm
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<Fare> pom pom pom
<Tril> yeah a whole 128 bits!
<Fare> Ac03lm4ZpQL45wERg3s
<Tril> What?
04:00pm
<Tril> oh 16 bytes well...
<Tril> except thats 19
<Fare> headers
π Tril/#tunes is lost
π Fare/#Tunes recovers Tril from last checkpoint
<Tril> what is that garbage you just posted to the channel?
<Fare> it's just garbage :)
<Tril> why did you say "pom pom pom"?
<Fare> or maybe it is ultra-secret terrorist information
<Fare> just chanting out of joy
<Tril> maybe I will find some way to use it against your government.
<Tril> why did you say "headers"?
<Tril> i am glad that you are glad, and not depressed.
<Fare> the extra 3 bytes where headers
<Fare> you still didn't send me any comment on the article
<Fare> not even the slightest bug fix :(
<Tril> ok, I'll send you what I have.
<Fare> thanks! :)
04:10pm
<Tril> sent
<Fare> hum. Doesn't begin so well :(
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. There will be netsplits, and they should settle down fairly quickly.  Apologies, we need to twiddle the hop-counts.
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04:20pm
<Tril> as soon as 64MB 60ns EDO simms are under $20 I'm going to buy 8 of them
<Fare> 8 ?
<Tril> yup that will max out bespin's memory at 512MB. but it will be a long time, they're $67 now.
<_QZ> bespin has 8 simm slots?
<_QZ> and its mobo can accept 512meg?
<_QZ> i find that hard to believe
<Tril> It's a HX chipset..it can take 8 64MB'ers and cache them all
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> the vx/tx are newer than the hx and they can only cache 64meg
<_QZ> and most mobos will only accpet 384meg
<_QZ> some only 256meg
<Tril> http://www.tyan.com/html/s1564s.html
<_QZ> hmm does the power connector interfer with that 4th pci slot?
<Tril> I made the tradeoff to get the RAM capability instead of Ultra DMA.
<_QZ> i havent noticed any speed diff with udma
<Tril> I don't know about the 4th slot. I'll never have that many PCI cards.
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<_QZ> do u have a manual for the board?
<Tril> yah. you can also get the pdf off that page
<_QZ> what does it say about cell size of ram?
<Tril> it takes up to 64mb simms in each slot
<_QZ> but what cell size?
<Tril> what's that mean
<_QZ> how much each chip holds
<_QZ> if the simm has 8 chips on it then its a 4bit cell size
<Tril> you mean 16x32? I don't know what you are talking about
04:30pm
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> if the simm has 4 chips then it has an 8bit cell size
<_QZ> chips*cellsize = 32bits per simm
<_QZ> most mobos cant handle 64/128meg in certain cell sizes
<_QZ> as soon as 256meg dimms drop to $50 im gonna buy 7 of them :)
04:40pm
<Fare> as soon as 1GB SWIMMs drop to $1, I'm gonna buy 666 of them :)
<Tril> I just searched the manual and it doesnt have anything about that.  All it says is to try to use the same manufacturer and speed in the same bank, or something
<_QZ> my asus p2b can take 768meg and the p2b-d im ording can take 1gig
<Tril> look at http://www.tyan.com/html/s1564_addendum_2.html,  last line. Does "PCB layout" include the cell size?
<Tril> is double/single sided related either?
<_QZ> notrelated
<_QZ> pcb layout just means that all simms should have the same number of chips
<Tril> well, that's what you said then.
<_QZ> no it isnt
<Tril> if they have the same number of chips then they are the same cell size, because chips*cell size = 32
<_QZ> right
<Tril> so it doesnt matter what cell size there is as long as they arent mixed.
<_QZ> but what im saying is some boards disable banks when a certain cell size is used in any bank
04:50pm
<Tril> if the ram dont work I return it and say it's bad ram, get new ram sent to me.
<_QZ> if it has 8 chips it will work
<_QZ> 4chips should also work
<_QZ> it might only be a dimm problem
<_QZ> just stay away from 2 chip simms to be safe :)
<Fare> 122
<Tril> Fare, you are incomprehensible today :)
<_QZ> have u guys installed winNT?
<Tril> sure.
<_QZ> does its cd use some stupid format?
<Tril> I only had a "trial version". installed from hard disk
<_QZ> config.sys:  device=a:\mtmcdai.sys /D:MTMIDE01
<_QZ> autoexec.bat: mscdex /D:MTMIDE01 /M:10
<_QZ> but it says invalid media type when i access the nt cd
<Fare> I have installed it in the place it deserves most: the garbage can!
<Tril> it probaly uses romeo , since joliet cds should work in dos
<Tril> if u go into windows9x the nt cd should work
<_QZ> well my p2-333 nt box at work keeps crashing so the moronic company that handles them took it, again, and left me with a p133 running NT
05:00pm
<_QZ> so im gonna install NT on my celeron and take it to work
<_QZ> i tried installing from win98 but the nt install said it couldnt write the boot sector
<_QZ> er, its boot loader
<Tril> use linux to mount the cd, copy the \winnt directory to your hard drive. boot to dos, run winnt.exe (I think) to install
<Fare> don't!
<Fare> return it, and get a refund!
<Tril> "There are lies, damned lies, and benchmarks." 
05:10pm
<Fare> ... and deadlines.
<hcf> and anything _QZ says
05:20pm
<_QZ> Fare: i stole it from work
<hcf> Fare: did anything happen w/ garth <gpzF93@hamp.hampshire.edu> ?
π Fare/#Tunes calls the police
<Fare> hcf: I left him because he was not a good lover.
<hcf> oic
<Fare> why, should anything have happened?
<_QZ> Fare: r u gay?
<hcf> he mentioned contributing to tunes
<hcf> im also wondering if u happen to know what happened to the misa project
<Tril> QZ: are you anti-gay?
<Tril> who is garth
<hcf> Tril: http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=104461469
<_QZ> Tril: r u gay?
<Fare> QZ: should I be?
<Fare> hcf: afaik, misa is discontinued
<Tril> qz no but if I were i think you would offend me
<hcf> anything left of it online?
<Fare> no news from Garth or anyone from Misa.
<_QZ> Tril: kewl :)
<hcf> k
05:30pm
<_QZ> i like to offend ppl :)
<Tril> qZ: are you a redneck?
<_QZ> no
<hcf> _QZ is a mormon
<Fare> Tril: too bad neither of us is gay :)
<Tril> hcf if you enjoy reading news from 3 years ago (fare you're sick)  we need someone to summarize the tunes list...:)
<Tril> fare wants to be gay?
<hcf> Tril: no, its just that i felt like finding misa, and hit garth's response to fare
<Fare> Tril: you don't choose these things
<Fare> (which is why it's stupid to be angry at people because of their preferences)
<Fare> I'm stuck in my lambdaND article
<_QZ> i hate pages that use javascript, on pull down menus, to goto pages
<_QZ> i have to enable js, go back a page and then go forward again
<Fare> QZ: you mean, you didn't deactivate jas?
<Fare> you mean,  you don't use lynx???
<_QZ> lynx is for the visually impaired
<Tril> fare is your "connection reset by pear" a joke, or is it just a French spelling?
<Fare> emacspeak is better for them
<Fare> Tril you prefer apples?
<_QZ> wow $1400 for a motherboard seems kinda pricey
<Tril> is that a quad?
05:40pm
<_QZ> i think its a dual, im checking
<Tril> if it's a quad, then prices have come down :)
<_QZ> intel bx single w/ audio and a 10pack (whatever that is)
<Tril> comes with 10 celeron 300a's in case some of them break?
<_QZ> haha
<_QZ> just the board is $140
<_QZ> so the 10 pack is what added the extreme cost
<Tril> obviously a 10 pack is ten cpus of some sort
<_QZ> OHHHHH
<_QZ> 10 motherboards
<_QZ> bulk
<Tril> just like Taco bell they list a 10 pack but the price is not discounted. they are retarded. but people buy them because they don't know how to divide by 10.
<_QZ> haha
<_QZ> www.techstore.com is a nice place
<_QZ> they tell u everything about the part, its weight and shipping
<_QZ> 269.57 + 8.00 for the p2b-d
05:50pm
<Tril> every where I look on that site "There are currently no products in the selected category"
<Tril> maybe they should take out some categories
<_QZ> what category?
<Tril> almost all the memory, and the 686 board no cpu
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<jdl> Hola
<_QZ> 686 board?
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06:00pm
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π hcf/#tunes is away 19/01/99 21:15:53 EDT : food
π hcf/#tunes is back
<_QZ> 1-7 days and i will have a dual celeron 463mhz box
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<_QZ> Thank you for trusting TechStore to meet your technology
<_QZ>                             product needs. We appreciate your business! 
06:40pm
<_QZ> soemthing sounds fishy about that
<_QZ> "trusting" ????
06:50pm
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<hcf> hoy ultima
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<ultima> Ach Cee Eff!
<ultima> hey man
<hcf> almost done
<hcf> 1/3 of lang links left
<ultima> hcf: Kickass. Are you using a script, or doing it by hand?
<hcf> by hand
<hcf> w/ reason
<ultima> Wow
<ultima> you must have a lot of free time =)
<hcf> u could say that
<_QZ> ultima: hcf is free time
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07:10pm
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<lar1> Yo!
<ultima> werd gdog
07:20pm
<ultima> guys
<ultima> i need your opinions
<lar1> Ya?
<ultima> do you think each item on the review project should get its own page, or should they be able to share pages?
<lar1> Hmm, their own page
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<hcf> major ones get pages
<hcf> minor ones get put in the "we need more details" bucket
<ultima> hcf: How do I differentiate a major one from a minor one though?
<hcf> size
<ultima> ok...
<ultima> mhmmm
<ultima> if len > 500 chars, give it its own section?
<hcf> we need as many views as possible
<ultima> well my only concern is that it wont be uniform
07:40pm
<ultima> also, I had a rather upsetting revelation today: late doesnt support external hyperlinks
<lar1> late?
<ultima> which probably means i'm going to generate the html manually instead of via latex2html (Which isnt a big deal actually)
<ultima> lar1: What?
<lar1> What is late?
<hcf> lar1: latex
<lar1> Ah
<ultima> oops
<ultima> sorry
π ultima/#Tunes ponders, but still, i'm going to use latex source
<ultima> lar1 when you make entries, make them like this: url{http://www.whatever}
<ultima> well actually, nevermind, i just thought about something
<ultima> i'll just use footnotes in latex...
<ultima> bingo. Problem solved.
07:50pm
<lar1> Any one ever overclocked?
<hcf> lar1: talk to _QZ
<lar1> Ah
<_QZ> oh yes baby, NT boots sooooo much faster at 463/103 than it does at 333/66
<lar1> Hehe
<lar1> I wanna overclock my 386... see just how fast I can go...
<ultima> er
<ultima> u cant overclock a 386 dude
<lar1> Sure I can... 
<ultima> no you cant
<lar1> Just replace the Xtal?
<ultima> er
<ultima> 386s clock speed is hardwired intothe CPU
<ultima> 386 is before the day when all cpu's were manufactured for one speed and ran at another
<ultima> a 386/25 was manufactured at 25mhz
<lar1> Why is there an external osciliator?
<ultima> while a p166 was manufactured at 233, it just sucks
<ultima> lar: think about it for a minute
<lar1> Ooooo
<lar1> Keep out noise?
<ultima> noooo
<ultima> the clock rate may be fixed but it is still there
<ultima> the bus speed is an amazing 8.5 mhz, remember?
<lar1> Yah
<lar1> So no multiplyer....
<lar1> I get it
<ultima> no
<ultima> no multiplier or variable bus speed
08:00pm
<lar1> What would happen if I just put in an 80Mhz crystal instead of the 40Mhz one?
<_QZ> yer isa cards wouldnt work
<lar1> Does the chip use that crystal for the bus clock too?
<lar1> So I can only overclock pentums?
ωνω lar1 is now known as lar_eating
08:10pm
ωνω ultima is now known as ultima_
<ultima_> lar correct
<ultima_> any texperts here
<_QZ> damnit
<_QZ> i had nt working and then i installed the stupid bus mastering driver and now it wont boot
08:20pm
<_QZ> how do i get rid of the driver so it will boot
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<me> hey everyone
<_QZ> hi
<abi> hoy, _QZ
<_QZ> u know howto use NT?
<me> qz: me?  no
<_QZ> dangit
<me> qz: your best off on a non linux irc network for NT help ;)
<_QZ> i had to install win98 to install NT and i just screwed up NT and it wont boot and i dont wanna format and start over
<_QZ> hehe
<me> my turn to ask back now :)   do you know how one is supposed to write functions to files, or if the "relational database" in slib is persistant?
08:30pm
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> dont know what slib is
ωνω lar_eating is now known as lar1_half_away
<me> ok, then i'll take that as a no :)
<me> ooh, i think i may have found it myself
<lar1_half_away> _QZ:  Why do you need to run NT?
<_QZ> my p2-333 at work keeps crashing
<me> cool, the "relation database" in slib does store to the disk.... now the question...  would i be foolish to attempt to use the database structure in slib as a replacement for persistance in the language?
<_QZ> and the company that services it keeps taking it and leaving me with a shitty p133
<_QZ> so im gonna install NT on my celeron 463 and take it to work
<me> QZ, what app are you running under NT?
<lar1_half_away> Ah
<_QZ> me: bunch of proprietary controller shit
<me> gotcha
<_QZ> i'd tell ya what the shit was but i dont know
<_QZ> someone at work will install all that for me :)
<me> i look forward to the day that wine is stable enough that i can bitch at people for not using wine.
08:40pm
<_QZ> dont know if wine would work, there are cards that go in the machine too
<_QZ> proprietary cards
<_QZ> the software and hardware costs over $10,000
<_QZ> my stupid work paid like $3000 for a stupid p2-333 computer
<_QZ> instead of buying a much faster celeron box from me for half that
<_QZ> but i laugh at them everyday and let them know they screwed up by buying that machine
<me> heh
<me> does fare log in much anymore?
<_QZ> yup
<_QZ> everyday
<ultima_> no
<ultima_> he's been busy
<ultima_> doing what, I dont know
<me> ok
<_QZ> u need to show up several hours sooner
<me> true
<ultima_> yeah probably ;)
<_QZ> he lives in france
π me/#tunes smiles
<me> i did log in this morning and didn't see him either
<me> actually abi was the only one here
<me> (other then myself that is)
<_QZ> no, about 3-5hrs ago
<me> (but that goes without saying)
<ultima_> woo
<ultima_> ok
<me> woo?
π ultima_/#Tunes says a quick prayer
<ultima_> so far so good
08:50pm
<me> ult: whatcha up to?
<ultima_> me: Attempting to code
<ultima_> grr
π ultima_/#Tunes wonders how one would get pdflatex to create a hypertexted toc
09:00pm
<me> hey abi, what's bespin?
<ultima_> abi what is bespin?
<abi> bespin is in bellingham,WA. We'll probably be bespin.nas.com after ml.org goes down or hopefully bespin.dhs.org too
<ultima_> it doesnt handle slang or analogies
<_QZ> u dont even need the other crap
<_QZ> bespin?
<abi> hmmm... bespin is in bellingham,WA. We'll probably be bespin.nas.com after ml.org goes down or hopefully bespin.dhs.org too
<me> ok, cool
<me> ultima: did you ask because i asked, or was that a amazing coincidence that you happened to ask at the same time that i did?
<ultima_> me: I asked cus you did
<me> ok, thats what i thought, but had to check... i've seen wierder things happen :/
09:20pm
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ωνω SignOff me: #TUNES (2.8.2-EPIC3.004 -- just do it.)
<ultima_> who here is really good at tex?
10:00pm
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<me> back... dam ISP hung up on me.... just because i camp out on the line 24 hours a day :)
<me> did i miss anything interesting?
10:10pm
<_QZ> ya brix is working
<lar1_half_away> Does brix support FAT?
<_QZ> lar lar lar
<_QZ> NO!
<lar1_half_away> O I see, Just thought I'd ask...
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<_QZ> a fat emu might be added later
<lar1_half_away> What FS does brix use?
<_QZ> OFS
<_QZ> ofcourse u would know all thisif u had read the brix page
<lar1_half_away> Ok, ok... guilt guilt... what is the page again?
<_QZ> www.qzx.com/brix
<me> is brix new?  i havent heard of it till now
<_QZ> not really
<_QZ> its been around as long as tunes
<me> (or did i read *of* it, but not pay any attention to it till now?)
<_QZ> but brix is much much farther along
<_QZ> brix?
<abi> brix is a free portable protected preemptive pervasive-multithreading multiuser object-oriented high-speed distributed operating system located at http://www.qzx.com/brix
<lar1_half_away> So, _QZ: What do you say is the first step in coding an OS?
<_QZ> alright brix is loading its actions
<_QZ> wont be long before i release a binary
<_QZ> lar1_half_away: design
<me> lar: picking the language you'll write it in
<_QZ> me: thats second
<lar1_half_away> Whats third?
<_QZ> coding the bitch
<_QZ> 4th is debugging
<_QZ> 5th is recoding
10:20pm
<_QZ> 6th is more debugging
<_QZ> :)
<me> finding someone to belame when things dont work :)
<_QZ> bochs is nice for debugging
<_QZ> my scripts assemble brix, run the tools to build the ofs and then call bochs to test it
<lar1_half_away> How do you start coding?
<me> what is brix written in?
<_QZ> just start writing shit
<_QZ> me: nasm
<lar1_half_away> What part do you code first?  Kernel?  Drivers? Interupt Routines?
<_QZ> hmm i somehow left persistant out of that description in abi
<_QZ> lar1_half_away: boot sector
<_QZ> could u change yer nick
<me> ouch, that could be tough porting :)
<_QZ> me: i believe the kernel should be hand optimized for the hardware
<_QZ> me: the drivers and actions are all writtin in brix
ωνω lar1_half_away is now known as lar1
<_QZ> so only the kernel needs to be ported
<lar1> And the BS loads the kernel?
<me> i gotta go to sleep
<me> goodnight everyone
ωνω SignOff me: #TUNES (ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004 --- Bloatware at its finest.)
<_QZ> lar1: or setup code
<_QZ> my setup code is embedded into the kernel code
<_QZ> so my bs only loads the kernel/setup for faster bootup
<lar1> How can you wirte a BS without witing the FS handlers and the Kernel first?
<_QZ> the linux bs loads a setup code and that loads the kernel
<_QZ> my bs knows howto read the kernel from the ofs
<lar1> What is a good, simple, and effeicent FS I can use?
<_QZ> but ofs is a very fast efficient fs so it requires very little code
<lar1> :)
<_QZ> go read up on ofs
10:30pm
<lar1> Did you make it?
<_QZ> yes
<lar1> Ok.  What do you use to read the disk?  INT 13h?
<_QZ> i load the kernel and the fs and floppy actions with int 13h
<_QZ> the fs and floppy actions then load everything else
<lar1> All with 13h?
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> on the bs and setup use int 13
<_QZ> the floppy actions program the floppy controller
<_QZ> the ofs actions call the floppy actions to read/write
<lar1> Ohhhh, where can I find out about the controller?
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[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0120
IRC log ended Wed Jan 20 00:00:02 1999